Advice on a Friend (political)

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Neodoxy
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Advice on a Friend (political)

Post by Neodoxy » Fri May 11, 2018 10:00 am

So maybe this might be a rather personal rant, but this is something that's been a cause of concern at the back of my mind for a while now. I have a friend from highschool that I still see from time to time. On a personal level we are still on very good terms, even if we don't exactly talk frequently. She is younger than me but actually presently holds a minor elected political position of power. She is also involved in a number of volunteer organizations. I hold her in incredibly high esteem in the sense that I would in some ways consider her the most moral person that I know. This is to say that she ACTS based on what she believes, devoting her time, effort, and in many ways her soul to the causes that she supports. I am also quite confident that she's coming from a place of genuine compassion. I respect that tremendously.

So what's the problem?

She's also a MASSIVE SJW. Much of my own opinions about how toxic American Liberal Arts departments are is shaded by this particular case. Since entering university I've seen a relatively apolitical center democrat turn into someone who has done the following:

-Fully given her support to reparations

-DEFINED herself as an intersectional feminist (that is an important part of her life)

-Complained loudly about how "white" her university is (despite it being somewhat above the national average)

-Used the term "problematic" unironically (a term I find either board room banal or death camp dangerous)

-Publicly come out in favor of immigration officials in our area not to do their jobs (something which I am simultaneously sympathetic to and repulsed by. At the end of the day I think the immigration situation within the United States is fucked to hell and I have a great deal of respect for many who are here, but at the same time I understand what is going on here is that a statist is arguing that laws she doesn't like should be overlooked and that borders should be open)

-Had problems with her boyfriends when they don't act in line with her feminist ideals (I couldn't get any specifics, she just kept feeling like there was general misogyny)

I've heard a great deal of other SJW rhetoric from her as well, and I have every reason to believe that if you quote anything about institutional racism or whatever the hell that that she'll fall in lock step with it. I've never seen her bring up what I might politely call "actual politics", "a nuanced worldview", nor have I seen any self-awareness that in certain ways she's a walking stereotype for my generation. In these respects she is perhaps the most immoral person that I have known in that she acts without anything close to what I consider proper consideration.

Now I gave up completely on being dogmatic or even really vocal about most of my libertarian views a long time ago now. I've long since moved to a position that as long as we're generally talking about a policy that isn't open militarism, exists within a capitalist framework, secures general rights, and which doesn't seem to annihilate culture based on constructivism, then I can pretty much live with it. Yet I find this rhetoric repellent and part of a cultural phenomenon that I find abhorrent and dangerous. This is someone with political power who I am increasingly worried might become a lifelong advocate of these causes. She respects my opinion and I've spoken out a few times in the past, but at the end of the day I don't know what I should do. I don't know how to approach her on these subjects, and I don't know if it is worth potentially risking my friendship to really try going for the throat on trying to express who I really consider to be the biggest enemy of women and (most) minorities in the United States today. I've resigned myself that I am going to have people in my life who fall into these traps, but it is a completely different matter when they hold actual political power and have the potential to become leaders.

Any thoughts?

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Jon Irenicus
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Re: Advice on a Friend (political)

Post by Jon Irenicus » Fri May 11, 2018 11:05 am

What I find is that many of these people are completely oblivious to why people don’t agree with them or support worldviews contrary to their very abstract views on the world.

Like on immigration, they really don’t understand the issues at hand and keep vilifying those of European descent for a desire to want to keep their own majority territories... when every other group out there does the same and would laugh at the notion of ‘open’ borders as preposterous, particularly given how ‘western’ states conduct it. Look at how differently the Arab or East Asian states deal with it, or Israel. The former source any labour they need through guest worker permits.

Their understanding of history is also horrible. Eg ask about the Barbary slave trade. They aren’t exposed to opposing views much because they actively ignore them and try to silence them, eg on the topic of colonialism there is a movement to silence a re-examination of it on its factual merits. This is cult like behaviour in excising ‘heretics’. I strongly recommend ‘the alternative hypothesis’ website and YouTube channel on the topic of their usual talking points.

So you could try educating her on the matter, try ask her to explain where she disagrees with other perspectives... wait for the phase to pass, as it does with many people... it’s all dependent on how able she is to handle opposing views critically. If there’s no willingness to do so, you may end up with nothing but aggro/frustration.
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Neodoxy
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Re: Advice on a Friend (political)

Post by Neodoxy » Fri May 11, 2018 11:38 am

Jon Irenicus wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:05 am
What I find is that many of these people are completely oblivious to why people don’t agree with them or support worldviews contrary to their very abstract views on the world.
A big part of the problem is where to even start with an SJW. Their entire language is weaponized against being challenged and their worldview states (even more than most worldviews) that everyone who doesn't agree with them is probably just ignorant. One of the things that never stops amazing me is how full of holes the worldview is. New problems appear all the time, and at this stage I actually find any new critiques to be rather banal because I feel that we've passed the point where the ideas were refuted long, long ago. I heard the wage gap quoted the other day. I wonder how many years the wage gap would have to be significant in the other direction for it to stop being a talking point.

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Jon Irenicus
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Re: Advice on a Friend (political)

Post by Jon Irenicus » Fri May 11, 2018 5:18 pm

I actually get that as well when dealing with them - the "where to even start" sensation. I think it takes an inordinate amount of patience.

The wage gap crap is spreading like crazy and yet it is so blatantly false and in some cases, even the reverse of reality.
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Millennial TM
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Re: Advice on a Friend (political)

Post by Millennial TM » Sat May 12, 2018 10:22 am

I find that first establishing a friendship, then making clear your political views unapologetically (without trying to open a dialogue about it) can be useful. Eventually they tire of wondering why a reasonable person might hold those views, and then ask you about it or try to challenge you on it. Then the balls in your court.
"And be it indeed that I have erred, my error remaineth with myself"

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FvS
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Re: Advice on a Friend (political)

Post by FvS » Sun May 13, 2018 5:57 am

You could pretend to out socialist them, taking their positions to ever more absurd extremes.
"Most whites do not have a racial identity, but they would do well to understand what race means for others. They should also ponder the consequences of being the only group for whom such an identity is forbidden and who are permitted no aspirations as a group." - Jared Taylor

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Jon Irenicus
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Re: Advice on a Friend (political)

Post by Jon Irenicus » Sun May 13, 2018 9:46 am

That doesn't necessarily work with an SJW. :mrgreen:
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FvS
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Re: Advice on a Friend (political)

Post by FvS » Sun May 13, 2018 10:55 am

True, they might just end up agreeing with you.
"Most whites do not have a racial identity, but they would do well to understand what race means for others. They should also ponder the consequences of being the only group for whom such an identity is forbidden and who are permitted no aspirations as a group." - Jared Taylor

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Tom Rogers
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Re: Advice on a Friend (political)

Post by Tom Rogers » Sun May 13, 2018 12:02 pm

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