'Rotherham': triumph of the Leviathan

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Tom Rogers
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'Rotherham': triumph of the Leviathan

Post by Tom Rogers » Sun May 13, 2018 1:37 pm

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FvS
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Re: 'Rotherham': triumph of the Leviathan

Post by FvS » Thu May 17, 2018 5:19 am

What should be the right political response to 'Rotherham'? I think it would be two-pronged. On the one hand, it must be stated clearly and emphatically that 'Rotherham' is a consequence of diversity, that mass immigration must end, and that all non-European heritage people must gradually leave this country, perhaps over several decades as part of a gradual and humane scheme of deportation, with those who commit serious offences (including those committed by Pakistani Moslem men in Rotherham and other places) subject to immediate deportation rather than prison. On the other hand, I think it should be stated equally clearly and emphatically that 'Rotherham' is also a consequence of irresponsibility on the part of most of the young women involved and their parents. If you wish to practice loose sexual morals, then you must take the consequences and not expect sympathy from those who would rather start families. Sexual licence is not freedom. Laissez-faire parenting does not inculcate freedom in the next generation. Liberty is complicated: freedom requires discipline because only the independent can be free.
Victim blaming!!! But seriously, it's always complicated when talking about age of consent because the degree of rationality can vary from person to person. Also, there were definitely serious crimes perpetrated on innocent victims who weren't just horny teenagers getting in over their heads. What percentage of the victims fit that description? I don't know. However, by and large, I agree with your conclusion.
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Re: 'Rotherham': triumph of the Leviathan

Post by Tom Rogers » Thu May 17, 2018 1:10 pm

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Re: 'Rotherham': triumph of the Leviathan

Post by FvS » Sat May 19, 2018 8:01 pm

Isn't it commonly believed that the brains of younger teenagers aren't as developed compared to an older teens? Theoretically, this is why teens under 16-18 are not thought to be as responsible for their actions, and why they aren't legally allowed to do certain things. I'm not saying that, in general, people of all ages shouldn't exercise more prudence in their choices, just that maybe young teenagers shouldn't be held to the same standards as adults.
"Most whites do not have a racial identity, but they would do well to understand what race means for others. They should also ponder the consequences of being the only group for whom such an identity is forbidden and who are permitted no aspirations as a group." - Jared Taylor

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Re: 'Rotherham': triumph of the Leviathan

Post by Tom Rogers » Sun May 20, 2018 1:50 pm

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Re: 'Rotherham': triumph of the Leviathan

Post by FvS » Sun May 20, 2018 10:36 pm

Found this study that I thought was interesting.

The Adolescent Brain
Reyna and Farley (2006) have reconciled the second myth by showing that adolescents are able to reason and understand risks of behaviors in which they engage and do not consider themselves invincible. Prior research has also shown that adolescents knowingly engage in risky behavior, and this is often due to influences of feelings, emotions, and peers (Gardener & Steinberg 2005; Steinberg 2004, 2005). The observation that adolescents know that they are engaging in risky behavior is not supported by the sole explanation of a less developed prefrontal cortex. In this context, our model suggests that the adolescent is capable of making rational decisions, but in emotionally charged situations the more mature limbic system will win over the prefrontal control system.

When faced with an immediate personal decision, adolescents will rely less on intellectual capabilities and more on feelings. Nevertheless, when reasoning about a hypothetical, moral dilemma, the adolescent will rely more on logical information (Steinberg 2005). In other words, when a poor decision is made in the heat of the moment, the adolescent may know better, but the salience of the emotional context biases his or her behavior in opposite direction of the optimal action. This work coincides with studies of social cognition showing that adolescents make more rational decisions about hypothetical scenarios versus real-life situations (Sobesky 1983). The environmental context and emotional significance of the decision greatly influence the adolescent (Steinberg 2005).

Our findings and model have significant implications for heated debates on public policy and the treatment of minors in our judicial system. Adolescents show adult levels of intellectual capability earlier than they show evidence of adult levels of impulse control (Reyna & Farley 2006). As such, adolescents may be capable of making informed choices about their future (e.g., terminating a pregnancy) but do not yet have full capacity to override impulses in emotionally charged situations that require decisions in the heat of the moment. Unfortunately, judges, politicians, advocates, and journalists are biased toward drawing a single line between adolescence and adulthood for different purposes under the law that is at odds with developmental cognitive neuroscience (Steinberg et al. in press). Our neurodevelopmental model of adolescence will hopefully help to make strides in moving this single line to multiple lines that consider developmental changes across both context (emotionally charged or not) and time (in the moment or in the future).
"Most whites do not have a racial identity, but they would do well to understand what race means for others. They should also ponder the consequences of being the only group for whom such an identity is forbidden and who are permitted no aspirations as a group." - Jared Taylor

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Re: 'Rotherham': triumph of the Leviathan

Post by Physiocrat » Mon May 21, 2018 9:17 am

Tom Rogers wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 1:37 pm
I think both the Left and the far-Right are wrong about 'Rotherham'.
I think that's broadly right. It does seem to be the case that the teenage girls in most cases knew exactly what was going on and wanted the attention and action (I've heard Tommy Robinson argue there was force involved in some occasions which is entirely possible but that much of it does seem to be consensual). Secondly, it seems that the Muslim Pakistani men (that's most of the guys here) thought that playing around with white girls was fine because they were not Muslim but kafir, clearly demonstrating that a Koranic position to treat Muslims and non-Muslims differently. This is a clear case of ethical particularism demonstrated by an alien culture.

Ultimately though, why these girls got into this situation in the first place is the breakdown of the family. From what I here most were in care for some or much of their life. I severely doubt the frequency you'd have many girls brought up by their married biological parents (who married before the child was conceived) in this situation.

@FVS- your point about impulse control could well be true but I don't see why it should effect the law. If you intend an action and you bring it to pass you are responsible for it. Aiding impulse control in the young is a job for parents and civil society, not the law. Further, I imagine even mature adults make different decisions in the heat of the moment and a hypothetical scenario. For that it have any weight, you'd need to see the relative frequencies.
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Re: 'Rotherham': triumph of the Leviathan

Post by FvS » Tue May 22, 2018 4:22 am

Fair enough.
Physiocrat wrote:Further, I imagine even mature adults make different decisions in the heat of the moment and a hypothetical scenario. For that it have any weight, you'd need to see the relative frequencies.
That occurred to me as well. You'd have to imagine it's more prevalent in teens, notorious as they are for their emotional immaturity. But, maybe not.
"Most whites do not have a racial identity, but they would do well to understand what race means for others. They should also ponder the consequences of being the only group for whom such an identity is forbidden and who are permitted no aspirations as a group." - Jared Taylor

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